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 Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?

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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:23 am

The above speaks for whats intended.... Because from what I understand you cant "Physical" detect some one . You can only chakra detect ...Unless I am missing something here?
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DM Ayame
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:38 am

From what I understand. Physical Detection/stealth is sight, smell and other similar senses that detect the physical body and movement of someone. Chakra detection/stealth is being able to sense the chakra within a person's body and is much more difficult to hide.

If you don't have an ability to sense chakra, you can't use chakra detection. If you don't have ability to hide chakra, you can use chakra stealth. A chakra detector can sense someone without chakra hide automatically without roll. It represents the division between these types of senses and obfuscations.

Physical stealth/detection is available to everyone however.
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 3:42 am

DM Ayame wrote:
From what I understand. Physical Detection/stealth is sight, smell and other similar senses that detect the physical body and movement of someone. Chakra detection/stealth is being able to sense the chakra within a person's body and is much more difficult to hide.

If you don't have an ability to sense chakra, you can't use chakra detection. If you don't have ability to hide chakra, you can use chakra stealth. A chakra detector can sense someone without chakra hide automatically without roll. It represents the division between these types of senses and obfuscations.

Physical stealth/detection is available to everyone however.


Alrite so you can't Chakra detect some one that is physically hidden and some one with Chakra detect automatically detects some one with out it ?
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DM Ayame
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:01 am

No, Chakra and Phyiscal detection/stealths don't interact.

Basically, Chakra detection bypasses Physical stealth. You can't use physical stealth against Chakra detection. If you don't have an ability that has Chakra Stealth, then you're basically the same as standing out in the open.

Chakra detection detects a person's chakra, rather than their body. So obstacles and physical stealth don't matter.
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:11 am

Sooo.... If you want to be able to stealth you have to take both Chakra and physical stealth . And if you want detect some one you take just chakra detect ?  Mostly, because they need to take both to begin with other wise you have chakra stealth and can detect them auto if they dont . And then if they do chakra detect still is  the better of the two because ....You still decect with wis?


Okay! Got it I think soooo... If you have both Chakra/Physical stealth can you use Dex for your stealth stat since for wis you can use it to both detect both physical and chakra?   Or is it saying Dex/Int Works for both Chakra stealth/physical stealth . Or is it saying Int is for chakra stealth and Dex is for physical .  But to avoid detection you also need wis  ..? So pretty much you need three stats.? Or just two stats?


Quote :
Stealthing - Basics

May attempt to Stealth on your turn. This takes your turn.
Without an Ability(Passive) to do so hiding in combat costs 2CP.
You must Roll Physical Stealth(DEX/INT).
If your opponent is capable of Chakra Detection(has Passive bonuses to Chakra Detection) you must also roll WIS.
If you lose the DEX/INT Roll you are Detected. If you lose the WIS roll you are Detected.
If you are not Detected, your next Attack is automatically considered a crit if it hits.
Performing Chakra Detection costs 2cp.
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X3naW4rriorPr1ncess
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:18 am

Detection in both flavours exist for the sole purpose of countering stealth.

It's a fallacy that people get into when they start to believe the purpose of stealth is to avoid detection; the purpose of stealth is universally to in some way harm or frustrate the purpose of one being hidden from.

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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:31 pm

>.> Errr what? All that it is now is that you have to either

A: take points in both Physical/Chakra detect so you can hide properly , then one point in chakra detect . This pretty much lets you auto see more then half of the server because they dont have chakra hide... Problem is EVERYTHING Requires Two stats...

Or you can

B: Focus in chakra hide and take 1 point in chakra detect . Then just make techs to let you hide with wis. Or give you stealth bonus..


Physical stealth currently has little use so does physical Detect ... because If you dont have chakra hide your auto detected anyway . And you can just make hide checks with your wis. I think physical stealth is more of a In events kinda thing if you have no wis...Unless I am misunderstanding what has been posted and what is posted ...
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X3naW4rriorPr1ncess
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:33 pm

You're not auto detected you have to roll wisdom against chakra detection
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:39 pm

Quote :
No, Chakra and Phyiscal detection/stealths don't interact.

Basically, Chakra detection bypasses Physical stealth. You can't use physical stealth against Chakra detection. If you don't have an ability that has Chakra Stealth, then you're basically the same as standing out in the open.

Chakra detection detects a person's chakra, rather than their body. So obstacles and physical stealth don't matter.


Moral of the storying being you -have- to take chakra stealth as well as physical stealth .
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:45 pm

Physical stealth/detection and chakra stealth everyone has access to. Physical stealth is your normal, hiding in the bush. Chakra stealth is making sure your chakra aren't spotted by those who can Detect chakra


So person A and B is fighting, A then tries to hide.

A does physical stealth, and B performs physical detection. A pays 2 CP for hiding, B pays nothing for detection. They both use DEX/INT.

Now say there is also person C, who has a slot that allows chakra detection. Person C now rolls Chakra Detection and Physical Detection, but pays 2 CP for the Chakra detection. Person A now also has to roll chakra hiding. If person C wins either rolls, he detects person A.
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:56 pm

Pulawski wrote:
Physical stealth/detection and chakra stealth everyone has access to. Physical stealth is your normal, hiding in the bush. Chakra stealth is making sure your chakra aren't spotted by those who can Detect chakra


So person A and B is fighting, A then tries to hide.

A does physical stealth, and B performs physical detection. A pays 2 CP for hiding, B pays nothing for detection. They both use DEX/INT.

Now say there is also person C, who has a slot that allows chakra detection. Person C now rolls Chakra Detection and Physical Detection, but pays 2 CP for the Chakra detection. Person A now also has to roll chakra hiding. If person C wins either rolls, he detects person A.


Sooo...Does Chakra Stealth ever hide you from sight ? even with techs ? Or is that still considered physical Stealth?
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:02 pm

It does not, only thing Chakra stealth does is hide your chakra from detection
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:50 am

Alrite ... Sorry for all the questions because im going to have to resubmit my power and I want to be sure of everything ... Though I do have a question .. Why is Int used for Dex and not wis ? Since wis is a Jutsu stat and Int's a Genjutsu ? Is that a typo or is it Int/wis or Dex?


Chakra Stealth - ONLY hides your chakra Iccly/Mechiacnally . Does nothing IN combat even with Jutsu and uses Wis


Physical Stealth - Only Hides you personally . Uses Dex/Int works in combat . However if some one has chakra stealth they detect you if you fail a wis roll .



So really .. Taking "Physical" Detect is needless ... And to properly hide / stealth from some one with the current rules you would need to have both chakra stealth and physical which would be a total of 6 pp as where as some one with Chakra detect can for 3 PP spot you . To Hide you need both Dex and Wis , to detect you need only wis? and You can make techs to hide your self with jutsu and that use wis ?
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:14 am

SleepyBot wrote:
Alrite ... Sorry for all the questions because im going to have to resubmit my power and I want to be sure of everything ... Though I do have a question .. Why is Int used for Dex and not wis ? Since wis is a Jutsu stat and Int's a Genjutsu ? Is that a typo or is it Int/wis  or Dex?


Chakra Stealth - ONLY hides your chakra Iccly/Mechiacnally . Does nothing IN combat even with Jutsu and uses Wis


Physical Stealth - Only Hides you personally  . Uses Dex/Int   works in combat . However if some one has chakra stealth they detect you if you fail a wis roll .



So really .. Taking "Physical"  Detect is needless ... And to properly hide / stealth from some one with the current rules you would need to have both chakra stealth and physical  which would be a total of 6 pp as   where as some one with Chakra detect can for 3 PP  spot you . To Hide you need both Dex and Wis  , to detect you need only wis? and You can make techs to hide your self with jutsu and that use wis ?

Where does it say you need to invest fully in Stealth (the 6 PP you mention). Stealth has powerful effects out of combat. Such as sneaking into villages or avoiding being caught by Hunter Nin groups or avoiding Detection at range so you can't be tracked. You are thinking purely in terms of in the middle of a DF. Stealth was balanced with the idea in mind that dedicated stealth specialists could sneak into secure places. So, with that in mind do you still think that the system regarding Stealth is not working?

As for your question on DEX/INT it was to reflect that there are two methods of physically hiding.....nimble/dexterous for DEX and intelligently like seeing a way to camouflage yourself for INT.

Then since WIS is Ninjutsu and probably in my opinion the most likely stat for Chakra Stealth (besides CHA, which we discarded because we don't want core abilities rolling off CON/CHA).  Thoughts?
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SleepyBot
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:50 am

Quote :
Where does it say you need to invest fully in Stealth (the 6 PP you mention). Stealth has powerful effects out of combat. Such as sneaking into villages or avoiding being caught by Hunter Nin groups or avoiding Detection at range so you can't be tracked. You are thinking purely in terms of in the middle of a DF. Stealth was balanced with the idea in mind that dedicated stealth specialists could sneak into secure places. So, with that in mind do you still think that the system regarding Stealth is not working?

Nah I was speaking in terms of both Rp and DF . Since Chakra detect  over rules physical Stealth , and Chakra stealth your still visible. Where as Chakra detect is just Chakra detect... You see them and where they are . Meaning you need to take both of them if your going to be a stealth specialist  else you can easily be spotted where as a detection specialist just has to take just chakra detect. As for the other  Int just felt random ...



And

Quote :
Then since WIS is Ninjutsu and probably in my opinion the most likely stat for Chakra Stealth (besides CHA, which we discarded because we don't want core abilities rolling off CON/CHA).  Thoughts?


So then one can use Wis to Stealth and Detect with wis in the end ?



And how does Stealth stack exactly? is it 1/2 or 1/4 or 1-1 ?
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Zetsu
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PostSubject: Re: Can we combind physical stealth and charka stealth into just stealth ?   Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:32 am

Stealth bonuses stack at 50% like anything else.
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